Bridge-Bidding Decision Making

[firstfrost]

So, one of the reasons that I rarely end up in an argument with harrock is that we have a ridiculously simple method for deciding on things (I know I've mentioned it to some people before, but in my new vague quest to talk about things other than book reviews, I thought I would talk about it...). Basically, it works the way bidding in bridge does.

An example, using the Classic Disagreement of "Where Should We Go For Dinner?" which seems to constantly plague society.

1: Want to go to Uno's for dinner?	A mild suggestion, no strong preference. Call it one club.
2: I had pizza for lunch; something else would be good.	You can't bid "not one club", you have to actually suggest something else.
2: I had pizza for lunch; how about Indian?	It's not a much stronger preference, but it's a little bit of one. This might be one spade.
3: Or we could do Chinese, if you'd rather.	This is still mucking around in sounding like "I don't really care" area, it's like bidding one diamond, and it's too late for that. You have to actually bid *higher*.
3: Oh! Hey, there's a new Chinese place at Fifth and Main I've been wanting to try. How about that?	A legitimate overbid. Maybe it's two notrump.
Alternate 3: I was really looking forward to Uno's, actually. I've been thinking about pizza skins all day.	Back to the original suit, but at three clubs or so now. I personally think it's better form to open with the three clubs to start with, but this is still an acceptable bid.
4: Okay.	Pass. The last person to bid has made the decision.

The only real rule is that you can counter (not veto) the previous suggestion, but only if you care more. My mild whim doesn't overrule (can I use "trump" here in absolutely the *wrong* bridge context?) your fond desire - my mild whim doesn't even overrule your mild whim, if you bid first.

I suppose it doesn't have much automatic compromising built in, other than that each person is better off picking suggestions that the other person likes, so they'll be less likely to be outbid.

Comments

[desireearmfeldt]

I often run into a situation where one of us has thought about the question at hand and has some pre-formed opinions, while the other (presumably the one who didn't bring it up) has to formulate them on the spot. For the dinner question, that's not a problem, but some things require more thought.

I'm pretty swift at thinking things out on command, but I have to do it out loud, which may well sound like mucking around in the not-serious zone because I'm trying out possibilities to see if they sound good (or, alternatively, I may come across as way more committed to something than I really am because I say it in a serious tone of voice). But I think there's a class of people who can't pull up an answer on the spot and have to go off and think about it.

So all that is about the logistics of negotiation, rather than the tactics/mechanism. But the thing I wondered was: how much is the bidding system affected by the ability to have your opinion ready when it comes up for bid?

Presumably "I don't know what I want, let me think about it" is a legitimate move-which-is-not-a-bid. But I often feel in life that the person who suggests things ends up with a lot of default power, and I'm not sure it's the case that being slow to suggest, or to articulate a response, means you never have things you want.

[firstfrost.livejournal.com]

But the thing I wondered was: how much is the bidding system affected by the ability to have your opinion ready when it comes up for bid?

I probably wouldn't recommend making the decision about a Big Important Thing in the very first conversation that it ever comes up. ("Hey, dear, have you ever thought of having kids? We should decide today...") If you don't need to decide Now, and you don't have an immediate opinion (*and* you think it's a question that you're going to care more than one club about - I can often determine immediately that I'm not going to have a strong opinion even if I think about it), then there's no reason not to do some research and decide later.

[twe.livejournal.com]

I often feel in life that the person who suggests things ends up with a lot of default power

I think this is the root of all large group dithering amongst people we know, especially when countertorque is not around to cut through the dithering.

[desireearmfeldt]

The person who is willing to suggest something, rather than dithering, has a lot of power. I don't think that *causes* dithering, unless you mean that everyone's afraid to abuse the power; I agree there's some of that.

[twe.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think you get dithering because a whole bunch of people are on some level afraid to "abuse the power" as it were. Maybe my perceptions have been skewed by too much standing around in the cold freezing my nose off.

[firstfrost.livejournal.com]

The person who is willing to suggest something, rather than dithering, has a lot of power.

Yeah, I have come to see that as an explicitly Good Thing. If I don't care, all power to the people who are willing to care. If I do care, then this forces me to commit to something in particular rather than just reject other people's preferences.

[desireearmfeldt]

Agreed.

However, in a big group you really do have to worry about people who might have an opinion and not feel comfortable speaking up for group dynamics reasons.

Rephrase: you don't *have* to worry about it, but it is a thing that may occur, and not worrying about it doesn't make it not exist. :) Anyway, various things about the bidding system make it less good for mobs, I think.

With only two players, this is not so much a concern, especially if you know each other well enough to be married.

[countertorque.livejournal.com]

You can't stand around on the street with 30 people and worry that someone wants to eat at a particular place but won't say so. I mean, how could you possibly figure that out in that setting?

If you want to eat, you speak up and say where you're going. You'll either force a subset of the group to shout you down (which is fine, cause you only wanted to know what they wanted in the first place), or they'll go where you want to go. It's win-win.

I don't really think anyone should get hurt feelings over this. Surely everyone can see that it's impossible to have any kind of detailed discussion in this situation.

[remcat.livejournal.com]

Yeah, what he said! And as an added bonus, dithery people are fun, because you can make them do what you want. :) Look, we're all eating Ethiopian! Raw! With our fingers!

[countertorque.livejournal.com]

I often worry about all of my Boston friends dying from frostbite because they all tried to get dinner together and I wasn't there to pick a restaraunt for them.